Hell as Separation; a dialogue

A conversation between Matthew Westerholm and Jeff Foote.

Matthew is bold, and Jeff is italisized.

Is the traditional description of hell as "separation from God" biblical?

I think I found the answer in 2 Thess. 1:8-9. Jesus will come with his angels..."in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might."

OK - I know the 2 thess passage, but the presence of God is a slippery (or "multi-faceted")thing to talk about...

1) God is (in one sense) everywhere. Psalm 139:8 even says God is in Sheol. Yes, I know that "hell" in the OT is a nebulous concept. The bible says that Jonah fled away from the presence of the Lord (1.3) even though, as the book reveals, that was impossible.

2) Jesus says "where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them" in Matthew 18, but no one would say that Jesus isn't present with one believer as well (like he was with Paul in Acts 18.10; 2 thess 3.16; Rom 8.9-10). There must be a DIFFERENT way that he is present with a gathering of believers... Perhaps there's a DIFFERENT way that he is present in hell?

3) Jesus is pictured as administering judgement "He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty." (Rev 19.15) which is why his robe is dipped in blood. God himself is seen as (to quote the Westminster Confession) "most just, and terrible in His judgments, hating all sin, and who will by no means clear the guilty." (Neh 9.32-33; Ps 5.5-6; Nahum 1.2-3; Ex. 34.7) The Psalm 5 passage, specifically, pictures God as the executor of punishment. Yes, I know that the Psalms are not primarily meant to be doctrinal.

4) Revelation 14:9-11 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

Thoughts?